Why, oh why, oh why..?

WHY am I forced to agree with Boris, of all people?

If Iain Dale has got it right, then I’m afraid I have to declare on Boris’s side. If we’re going to take every Christian symbol out of Christmas, what’s the point in having it at all?

And do any of the PC officials at City Hall have any evidence at all that Christian symbolism at Christmas is remotely offensive to minorities?

Ronnie and Reggie have their prerequisite advent calendars this year: a Winnie the Pooh and a Thomas the Tank Engine one. But you have no idea how difficult it is to source a traditional advent calendar with a nativity scene. Fortunately Carolyn managed to buy one last year, which is now on display at Casa Harris.

Anyone who is offended at this can file their complaint in the nearest bin.



Filed under Blogging, Church, Family life

23 responses to “Why, oh why, oh why..?

  1. Johnny Norfolk

    Well said Tom.

    We have no problem having a traditional Christmas in Norfolk. Life in our villages is, as it has been for years. We will be at our local church a week on Thursday to sing carols. the church members visit all parts of the village to sing carols, and with lanterns as we have no street lights it is just as it has been for generations.

    We now meet for drinks in private village houses some are smoking some are not so you please yourself, You take your own drinks. No matter what the EU or the Labour government do we are determined not to let them interfear with our culture.

  2. Why, oh why, oh why..?

    WHY am I forced to agree with Boris AND Tom Harris of all people?!

    But yes, I agree completely!

    I feel dirty..


  3. This state of affairs has been manufactured by social engineers. It is the result of:

    Immigration without integration.

    Multiculturalism without patriotism.

    Rights without responsibilities.

    The natives surrendered long ago, because somehow, we trusted our ‘betters’ in Government and believed, in a frightening case of mass delusion, that our best interests were being catered for.

    Now we are waking up by the million.

    I guess there will be a race to close down the internet to all intents and purposes – under the pretext of keeping us safe from terrorists and the other usual excuses that have already fooled us into giving up many freedoms.

  4. Totally agree Mr Tom. Nice to know you still have some traditional “varlyoos” despite being a member of political party determined to turn us into some sort of multi- cultural mush.

  5. Andrew F

    Stop ruining Xmas with all that theocratic drivel. Just once, I want to enjoy a nice, secular Christmas without a bunch of middle aged farts telling me how I’m missing the point.

    No one particularly wants to feel hypocritical, thank you very much. We just want to spend quality time with our loved ones. Whether or not it has religious significance – and for most of my family, it certainly does – is completely irrelevant. The rest of us shouldn’t have to suffer through a bloody pseudo-R.E. lesson this holiday season.

  6. Well that makes up for all the bad decisions, cuts, and hyperbole then! Not.

  7. Jay

    Actually, I can imagine that a traditional advent calendar is hard to find. Have a look at your cards this year – how many depict the Christian message of Christmas? Wasn’t there some hoo-ha a few years ago about some charities deciding to do away with religious images on their cards?

  8. Jay

    …and btw I’m really fed up with the fashion for pouring scorn on Christianity on the grounds that it’s irrational. Atheism is equally irrational. If it’s rationality you want, become an agnostic.

  9. Ronnie

    It’s not that difficult to source an “traditional” Advent calendar, the wee old women sell them at the back of churches. Surely you “Christian” chaps pass them every week on your way in and out?

  10. Andrew F

    …and btw I’m really fed up with the fashion for pouring scorn on Christianity on the grounds that it’s irrational. Atheism is equally irrational.

    How d’you figure that one out? Atheism is the absence of theism, not – as many think – a firm belief that there Is No God.

    It’s like saying not believing [insert your magical creature here] is as irrational as believing in it.

  11. Chris' Wills

    Strange world.

    Away scrimping a living at the moment in a foreign land, a devoutly Islamic country.

    All the Christmas decorations including some Christian iconography (plus those for Eid Al-Adha as it happens to fall near Christmas this year) are up in the malls. Christian Carol concerts in the foyers of some of the largest hotels start next week, Christmas celebrations (including firework displays, paid for by the Emir again hopefully).

    Diwali is celebrated as well and we’ll get to celebrate Christmas again on the 6th January (Coptic Christmas) though that isn’t as grand an affair.

    They know how to do multi-cultural, respect for all disdain/contempt for none.

    Eid Mubarak to one and all

  12. Chris' Wills

    @ Andrew F

    By definition, Atheism means No God.

    You may wish to make distinctions between weak and strong versions but then you are mis-using the word to make a issue.

    You might be an Agnostic Atheist (don’t know and don’t believe).

    An Agnostic claims to have no sure knowledge, generally about knowledge of the Deity though can apply to other issues.

    As Science (Natural Philosophy), as St Aquinas stated and most agree, pre-supposes naturalism it cannot address the question.

    Materialism is a sub-set of Naturalism as is Scientism.

    Logic also finds it impossible to address, all logic has pre-suppositions set these and an answer comes out but different pre-suppositions result in different answers.

    Rational doesn’t mean, founded on Scientific results only or utilitarian; a rational choice can be one that causes your death (saving a child or loved one, fighting for someone elses freedom etc).
    Depends on your personal morality (ethics if you prefer).

    Now; I know I don’t know, but I believe. Therefore I’m an Agnostic Theist.

  13. Blackacre

    Country Life from a couple of weeks back has a traditional advent calendar on the front cover. Doubt that is required reading in a Labour household, though.

  14. Labourboy

    I don’t think we’re at risk from losing Christmas any time soon, I think they’re more isolated incidents at the moment.

    As for nativity scene advent calenders, I know the Divine Fairtrade Chocolate calenders are religious in tone. Labourgirl 😉 found a nativity calender, but as it had no chocolate I have no interest! 😉

  15. The one thing I hate about Christmas is people moaning about how Christ is being taken out of Christmas.

    I’m not taking this story on trust because every year the media invents stories that local councils are doing this and they turn out to be untrue.

  16. Tim f – I sympathise with your scepticism, which is why I prefaced my comments with “If Iain Dale has got it right…” But Iain, Tory though he is, is usually a reliable source, and if the City Hall memo he claims to have in his possession is legit, then this is a genuine case of (all together now!) political correctness gone….

  17. Jim T

    Nothing wrong with the holidays at this time of year. However, might want to be a bit more inclusive is all.

    Happy Rohatsu all! (You just missed it …)


  18. “But Iain, Tory though he is, is usually a reliable source”


  19. Jay

    Thank you, Chris Wills. Yes, both theism and atheism are irrational because logic (in the strict philosophical sense) can prove neither.

    I’m a Deist.

  20. Andrew F

    @Chris’ Wills

    You can keep misdefining words all you want, but an agnostic is someone who is undecided about the existence, while an atheist is someone who doesn’t have a belief in God. (This CAN manifest itself in a belief that God does not exists, but it certainly doesn’t have to)

    How do we know that I’m right and you’re wrong? Well, aside from utilising a dictionary, we could just look at the pre-fix “a” which means “non” or “none”. In other words, a non-theist, or someone who is “not religious”.

    Theists like to set up a straw man when they attack atheists; they like to pretend that we have a firm belief in the same way that they do. But being atheist (or non-religious) is just the default position: I’m not claiming I can disprove God, just that I have no belief in him. If you want to call me an agnostic because of that, then we’re all going to have to be agnostic about a lot of weird and wodnerful things we can’t disprove. (Celestial teapots, invisible pink unicorns, etc.)

    I’m bloody fed up of being slandered by religious-types who can’t be bothered to pick up a book.

  21. I’d make the point that I prefer “Happy Holidays” purely because it shows to the wider world that we acknowledge that there are many varied faiths that celebrate at this time of year and that in this secular country we treat everyone equally and celebrate them all, in our own ways, and the civic and governmental arms of our society emulate this by trying to be inclusive of all the faiths, and even that growing number who have no faith, by saying “no matter what creed or faith you follow, if you’re doing something at midwinter, happy holidays!”

    For the record, I’m a pagan, so before anyone starts throwing the “real reason for the season” nonsense around, I’d remind you that in the Julian calendar, 25th December is the Solstice, no personages of historical note were born on it, Jesus was probably born on June 7th, so the reason for the season was the early Christian Church wanted to shore up support in the still-pagan areas by combining Saturnalia, Solstice (Yule etc.) and various other celebrations into one big one and labelling it “Christmas”.
    So when I say this, it is aimed at Christians, Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Hindus, Sikhs, Shintoists, Buddhists, Atheists and anyone else that just likes a good excuse for a turkey and some celebration to take their minds off the cold, wed and dark nights with some merriment and fun:

    Happy Holidays!!

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